EDVIEW360
Hosted by Pam Austin and Greg Hullett, these discussions will feature dialogues with experienced educators, inspiring thought leaders, social media influencers, and leading education innovators.
EDVIEW360
Dyslexia and the Science of Reading: Educational Changes Worth Fighting For
For people who have seen the documentary The Right to Read, you’ve heard of Kareem Weaver because his work is featured in the film produced by LaVar Burton. Weaver is an Oakland-based activist with the NAACP, and as an experienced educator his mission is to create a world where all children can read.
Join us for this inspiring conversation as we talk with Weaver about dyslexia, the science of reading, and what American schools need to do to help all students read at grade level. Our discussion will cover why literacy gaps are especially pronounced among certain students, the need for early diagnosis of dyslexia, and what educational changes Weaver continually fights for in his quest to help all students learn to read. Weaver brings unique insight to this discussion from a parent’s perspective because his daughter was diagnosed with dyslexia as an older student, and as an educator who knows literacy is a right every person is entitled to.
Narrator:
Welcome to EDVIEW360.
Kareem Weaver:
Courage says even though I'm afraid, I'm going to do it anyhow. And that's what we need from our leaders. The higher standard of care.
Narrator:
You just heard from reading activist Kareem Weaver, who is our guest today on EDVIEW360.
Pam Austin:
Hello, this is Pam Austin. Welcome back to the EDVIEW360 podcast series. We are so excited to have you with us today. I'm conducting today's podcast for my native New Orleans, LA. Today, we are excited to welcome a trailblazing activist who has dedicated his life's work to literacy for every child and one who believes that literacy is the only role that gives anyone a shot at anything. His actions speak loudly as he travels across the country as a changemaker for literacy. Let me tell you a bit more about our guest before we get started with our conversation.
Kareem Weaver is a co-founder and executive director of Fulcrum, which partners with stakeholders to improve reading results for students. He is the Oakland NAACP's second vice president and chair of the education committee. His advocacy is featured in the upcoming film The Right to Read. Mr. Weaver is an award-winning teacher and administrator, and he believes in the potential of all students, the brotherhood of man, and the importance of service above self. His educational heroine for literacy instruction is the late Marva Collins. You're in for a great experience today as we discuss dyslexia and the signs of reading with Kareem Weaver, our guest today on EDVIEW360. Welcome, Mr. Weaver.
KW:
Thank you, it's a pleasure to be here. That was quite the introduction and I'm looking forward to the conversation.
PA:
All right, awesome. Your career and background are so admirable, and your fight for literacy for all students is inspiring. Tell us a short synopsis of what got you here as an activist for literacy.
KW:
A short synopsis. I'll try. That's not my specialty but I'll try, let's see. I got here, I guess, just the realization that life is short. I was a graduate student in clinical community psychology at the University of South Carolina and that was where I wanted to go. And I did it for a little while. But my path was diverted, you could say, as I was singing in the church choir and passed out and came to and they told me I had a heart condition. That I'm OK, I mean, I've lived with all these years, I'm fine.
But I guess I was given the gift to really look at time differently and assess what I wanted to do with my life. I think sometimes we have an illusion about time and what we have and what we don't have, and so at a very young age, I was given that gift which was to step back and ask yourself what do you really want to do? Why are you here? What's your purpose? And in answering that question I already always knew it was education. I just wanted to make some money first, but after that experience I said I better get about the business of doing what I'm supposed to do. And, so, I spent a lot of years in the classroom and in leading schools and being a system leader, etc. Trying to do the thing that I was called to do, which was teaching and learning and getting kids a chance to have a shot at life.
PA:
That diverted path seems to be the path that you needed to take. Thank you so much. There are so many who appreciate the path that you took here. So, let's explore a bit more. What was the turning point for you to decide that literacy is the thing that you're going to fight for? You talked about that diverging path and how did you make that decision? And I know you understood the situation that you went in and it made you think. But when you were thinking, where did that lead you?
KW:
It was self-evident. It was one of those things that you don't have to get a degree in linguistics to understand how serious the issue of literacy is across all communities. I mean, I first started off. In South Carolina, I used to work for the Department of Juvenile Justice. So, basically it's a youth prison basically, and as an administrator there, I came face to face with the reality of young people just not being able to read. I'm sure it was illegal, but I was given clearance to take a group of young people to church and Mother Dewdrop and Mother Warlow and the folks who ran the Sunday School knew hope. They realized that the kids I was bringing in they couldn't read and they couldn't read the Sunday School material. And, so, mothers, they went about, they were like we got it. Don't worry about it. So, they started teaching. I mean, they were cooking at a kitchen, they were cooking and everything, and they had love on them, but they also taught them to read because they were literally teaching to save their soul. That's how they approached it and I sat and I watched this. Matter of fact, I shared this once before with some folks.
I had a young man ask me if he could stay a little bit longer because he was learning to read. His sentence time was up, he was supposed to be released but he was like, “Weaver, can I stay? Just like another month.” I was like, “Nah, man. Don't work that way.” But just the idea of a young person asking to remain incarcerated because he saw hope in there, you know. So, that started me on my path toward literacy.
Everything else was climbing up that same ladder and singing in Oakland, up close and personal with young people, just not being able to crack the code and it didn't have a good foundation, for whatever reason, and realized that it's a five-alarm fire and it presents in different ways. Oftentimes, we think we have an attendance problem, but we got literacy problem. We think we have a behavior problem, we got literacy problem. We think we have all these different issues, but the root of it is the kids aren't reading, and then things spiral out of control after that. So, that's how I came to that realization and it's been reflected in my reality and opportunities to serve young people throughout my years of service.
PA:
And we thank you for that. Just listening to you, you expounded upon a couple of things that the root cause is normally literacy, because I was going to ask you well, as educators, how do we get where we are today? You name a few avenues or ways in which that would happen. Can you just expand on that a little bit for us?
KW:
In terms of how we got here to where we are right now?
PA:
Yes, yes.
KW:
No problem. I was reading last night and I saw a journal entry by a gentleman named Goodman, Ken Goodman. He passed away a few years ago, 2020, I believe. He was considered to be the father of whole language and the title of his journal entry was, Reading: A Psycholinguistic Guessing Game. And I read through his explanation of it and it was just stunning and it reminded me of what people do when they're struggling readers. They do the system of workarounds, but he was codifying and saying this is the way you teach reading.
So, I think we got here because we tried to make sense out of something we didn't understand how do children read and what's the best path forward? But the people who we were listening to, they didn't have the experience of teaching children to crack the code. So, the question isn't how do you get kids to read, because there's a lot of ways you can do it. Let me just tell you I believe in the science of reading. I want schools to apply it, but there are other ways. I know people who learn Montessori method. I know people who learn whatever balanced literacy, guided reading, whatever whole language. There's lots of different, but that's not the issue. Well, I think we got here because we lost out of the main thing, which is how do we get the greatest number of kids reading in Tier I? And, this is without private tutors and before we get to the Tier II interventions.
And when we lost out of that North Star, then we allowed ourselves to be kind of led astray by all kinds of explanations and then we also lost out of our core values.
I can just say, as a sector, if we believe that all children can learn to read, or that the overwhelming majority of kids can learn how to read, then when challenges come, rather than looking outwardly at what the kids aren't doing right or what the families aren't doing right or what the community isn't doing right, then we would look inside, look at our profession, look at our practices, our methods, our curriculum, our structures, our data analysis, the way we work together and collaborate. We would look at our class size, all kinds of things. We would look at that. But instead, unfortunately, when we lost out of the North Star, we allowed ourselves to then deflect and that began a spiral that hasn't really stopped spinning yet. And that's what we're trying to do we're trying to stop that spiral. Hold the mirror and say wait a second, we can do better. It has been done before and we can do it again if we just get our minds focused on the North Star.
PA:
All right. I just love listening to you. What's most impactful? The main thing to teach the most number of students to read? When we are spreading ourselves thin and we're looking at how easily we're led astray, I love the way you couch that all, formed around, makes it really easy to understand. In regards to what exactly happened.
KW:
I don't blame people. Teachers are trying their best. I have yet to meet a teacher who doesn't want kids to learn. That's just not why you get into this field. But we also have to be mindful of the influences that are leaning on our teachers. The universities who have methods classes that oftentimes don't line up. Methods 1 Teacher and Methods 2 Teacher aren't even on the same page. The districts who adopt curriculum without really vetting them. Oftentimes, I hear that they adopt curriculum. I know for a fact they adopt curriculum. They've never read the research reports. In fact, some of them don't even have reports to show evidence of student achievement.
There's a whole list of factors that go into how we got here, but ultimately my pitch is to educators to take back our profession. We're the ones, the tip of the spear, who are serving kids and their families. We're the ones. At a certain point in time, we have to say enough is enough. If people are going to put materials in front of us, we have to demand that they be vetted properly. If universities are going to charge us money to go to grad school and get these certifications and take these classes, then we ought to be able to demand that they're using what the evidence says is best practice. Otherwise, but all rolls downhill. It hits the teacher square in the face. When the parents are looking at us like, well, what's going on? Why isn't our child reading? They look at the teachers, not realizing that there's so much else that goes on, that a teacher has to align with account for, etc. You'll see that in a movie The Right to Read. You may have already seen it. It takes a lot of courage for an educator to step outside of what's expected and be willing to push and really look for root causes and then what they can do to address what the kids really need.
PA:
I love the idea of taking back our profession. Certainly.
KW:
You have to.
PA:
Please tell us a little bit about Fulcrum and what it stands for and what its goals are.
KW:
Well, my co-founder, Liza, would laugh at that question because what it stands for now wasn't what it meant to stand for. It started off, it was FCLN. I came up with that. It was Full and Complete Literacy Now. FCLN, that's what I wanted. I was like that's it, Full and Complete Literacy Now. She's like forget about rhyming, it doesn't even roll off the tongue. She said I think what we're trying to say is. And then she came up with Fulcrum, which stands for Full and Complete Reading Is A Universal Mandate. She said it's the same thing. It just is easier to grab ahold of. But really, Fulcrum is a nonprofit. That's all we do. We just focus on literacy, nothing else, which is what we realize is not very common. It seems like people try to be everything to everybody and be friends with this group and that group and play the political game and we just don't do that. We’re just here to focus on literacy. We want to get the greatest number of kids reading possible. How do we get our systems to align with that goal? We do.
A lot of our work is behind the scenes. We'll work with school boards and staffs and labor partners and interest groups, and whoever. Sometimes, if folks lawmakers want information. They might ask us for information. We give them information as we can, but our advocacy is more about sharing information than anything else. And then we do things like we take teachers and principals on trips to see best practices. “You're using XYZ curriculum? Well, you know what. You ought to see it happening. Well, let's go.”
Because one thing we realize is that there's a lot of conversation that's rooted in ideology. You got to get out of that and the best way to do it is to go see it working. Teachers are always…Most educators, we're vulnerable to our best self and we're vulnerable to results for kids. So, when you see somebody else doing it and being successful with kids, then we say, “Boy, I don't care what my grad school said. I don't care what the…Wait, they're getting results, what are they doing?” And, so, then we facilitate those conversations, those debriefs. We do a little bit of everything.
We're just trying to get kids to read, and our job is to help teachers to get there, help principals to get there, help superintendents and chief academic officers and board members and community groups and try to get people on the same page. And, also, all means all. At least the way I was raised, all means all. So, I know folks who have said kids with special needs or kids with IEPs or kids with dyslexia or kids with autism or whatever their neurological profile is, they're not part of all, it's like the quotient. But then here's the remainder. But we're actually saying no, we're dividing these whole numbers and this is we can get everybody.
We have to at least make the right amount of effort to get there, and that means speaking up on behalf of kids with learning differences. That means talking to folks like Berkeley Unified and saying, “Hey, you just sued the district in federal court and you all settled up this dyslexia suit. We want the information because other people might have to go that route.” Hopefully not. I don't think that's necessary all the time. We just talk to people, but we're trying to collect information and share it as needed so people don't feel like they're just grasping for straws. So, that's what Fulcrum is about to focus on literacy and to get others to focus on literacy in a way that's going to drive outcomes for kids.
PA:
All centered on literacy and, honestly, it's all encompassing here. No time for anything but literacy, but take a look at all the arms that reach out in order to make that happen.
KW:
Yeah. It's tough. It's tough and there have been people so I will say not everybody gets down with that. A lot of people say well, “You can't just focus on literacy. You have to also focus on all these other preconditions, all these.” And it's not as if we're saying that these other factors don't matter, whether it be poverty, whether it be the configuration of your home or the tenor and tone of your neighborhood. It doesn't matter how your family is constructed, what grandparents are. You're raised by one parent, or two, nowadays three, who knows.
Well, I'm not saying that there aren't other factors that go into it. That's not where we're at, and so when we talk with people, we have to remind them. “Listen, I'm not fighting against you. I understand.” We have to have a North Star and, as an African American who is a descendant of enslaved persons, I understand that it is possible. Look, I don't care what your background is, it is still possible. You’re talking about folks who were studying in the canebrakes and the hush harbors, but they learned.
So, how you gonna tell me that now, here we are with all our freedoms that we have, with all our rights that we have, and we can't do it now. Our kids can do it. They just have to be given the opportunity, the instruction, the guidance. and the support and they can do it and that's the goal. Same thing goes for our teachers. They can do it. They just need the support and they need the materials and the guidance and leadership. But if you give them that, and right now, we're asking them to make bricks out straw. That's just not a fair deal for the teachers or for the students.
PA:
Literacy is that equalizer.
KW:
It is.
PA:
It gives them the leg up. Thank you so much. You know the film, The Right to Read. It is timely, and an eye-opening look at a part of your journey. All right, you're telling us so much, you're giving us so much more and I hope that every educator everywhere can see it. Tell us why that film is so important to you.
KW:
First of all, I mean the film is a documentary. It's, I mean, it's real, it's not staged anyway. It's just they just followed us around with cameras, for what seemed like forever, and told the story. But it's real because I think it puts real-life people opening up their lives, as opposed to buzzwords and ideologies. Well, sometimes in education we get into these ideological battles and you’re just not going to win ideological battles. You’re just not. You’re just not. You have to be real with each other and I have to be real with people that I'm engaged with and that means…There are some folks in that movie who are working two and three jobs, trying to make ends meet, moving from one city to the next to get better opportunities for their family. I mean you’re talking about real folks. Teachers who are given materials that just don't work and are frustrated, at their wits’ end and they want to do right but they don't know they almost have to fight a whole system. So, I guess the documentary is important because it takes a real look at the issue and then identifies some shifts that we have to make. We can't sugarcoat it. We can't go around it. It's not necessarily pointing a bunch of fingers, although it does say, “Hey, we got to consider changing this and changing that.” But it does, I think, give us a realistic view of the stakes. And I will say this, though, about the documentary the folks in that movie, those parents I mean those kids hit the lottery. Those parents are on point. Their two parents, and they're doing all the things that you could ever want to do. Not every kid is a lottery winner. Some kids may not have all of the resources they need. Their parent may not be going to school for education and their father may not be sitting at the computer with them going through every lesson and everything like little Fred's. Not everybody's gonna win the lottery. So, we got to figure out how to make this system work for everyday parents and everyday children. But that movie is a starting point for the conversation.
And the last thing I’ll say on that is I love one of the characters in there, one of the teachers. I've had the opportunity to know her and her practice and I'm still in touch with her. But you shouldn't have to risk your job and go against all the norms and the powers inside a school system to do right by kids. And a lot of school teachers across the country they know about this science of reading thing, they're studying it, they're thinking about how they can shift the curriculum and do these things and it is not easy because they know that may not be the district-mandated curriculum or whatever the approved method is that they're supposed to apply and they're literally risking their job.
And she didn't have tenure, she was only a second-year teacher at that time. So, I think the movie is also important because it shows you the kind of courage that it takes to get where we want to have to go for our kids. I hope people see it. I hope they enjoy it, but I hope it also sparks conversation and some movement so that we can get our kids in a better place.
PA:
Right, both for parents and for teachers as well.
KW:
Right, that's right.
PA:
I mean to simplify, you just highlight it. The challenges, but there are some solutions here. All right, we know what the challenges are, but this is the solution and that's what I love that you reiterated, that you expound upon, and I really appreciate that. As we know, October is Dyslexia Awareness Month, and you shared your personal experience with your daughter's challenges with dyslexia. In your opinion, Kareem, how was her diagnosis overlooked for so long and how's she doing now?
KW:
How honest do you want me to be?
PA:
Well, as honest as you'd like to be, as long as you don't embarrass your daughter.
KW:
OK. Oh I see. Look, I should have had her on here. She'll tell it. She has feelings about how the whole thing went down. I would say this look, she's a little black girl and well behaved in class and so, and she was taught how to read. I mean, you see it in the movie. That's her in the movie, by the way. I'm teaching her how to read and she looks at the thing and she says, “I love it, I love it.” So, don't talk to me about the joy of reading and how phonics kills the joy. She turns to the camera and says, “I love it.” Now, and on top of that, we had her repeat kindergarten twice, just in case. Nothing was wrong. We just wanted to give her an extra year to be a kid, that's all.
So, with two parents who are educators and one who taught her how to read, with extra time on the clock, she still ended up just about ready to drop out. The alarm bells go off for different kids at different times, and that's one thing. It would be wrong to overlook that. I went in to talk to the teachers. The thing was so she's fine, and girls get that a lot. She's fine, she's so sweet, she's so nice. Everybody likes her. I'm not here talking about who likes my daughter. She's struggling right now and every day she's in this school. She's going further and further behind when she started off ahead.
So, I would say there's a couple things to take from that experience that we had. One: Our expectations for children differ based upon our personalities as educators, the materials, the system we're in, the environment, the culture, and that's just a reality. We're human beings. We have our biases. I mean, that's not to disparage anybody. That’s just what it is. So, that's why a structured approach is critical, because it sets you up. No, we're not gonna skip anything. You're not gonna make an assumption about that child. We're gonna teach this on this date and we may go up or down, forward or backward a little bit, based on how they acquire the skill, but it's Tuesday, so we're gonna give this assessment. It's not about whether or not you think this little black girl should or shouldn't be doing that. It's a Structured Literacy approach. The other thing is, one thing I learned from that challenge is that money matters.
We asked for testing. We wrote letters. We had all the stuff and well, two things: Money matters and also we got to get out our feelings, as my son would say. I was so far in my feelings as an educator, teacher, principal, all of that that I wanted to win. The district should be serving my child, they should be. This is a public school, traditional public school system. She has a right to a free public education. So, test her. We're writing this letter, we're doing this, paperwork is all in order, and so we sat on it and sat on it fighting and fighting.
My biggest reflection is you can win the battle but lose the war. We were fighting and we did have the right to demand testing and demand this and demand that, but they weren't doing it. They were delaying some of it was intentional, I believe. Some of it, I don't think it was intentional and meanwhile our child is steadily falling back further and further behind, becoming disenchanted with school. So, we ended up passing a hat around the family and getting some money and getting her privately tested, and that's how we found out she was dyslexic. So, I would urge anybody that's listening: Fight the good fight. Wrestle with your system as you have to, but at the end of the day, we are the stewards. We are the ones who are in charge of ours. We're in charge. We have to make sure that we are doing whatever we can to save our child, and that may mean coming out of the pocket.
So, people working a lot of jobs nowadays. My brother's working a couple jobs. I had this conversation with him recently like, “Listen, man, why work two jobs?” I'd rather work two jobs to get a test for my child than work two jobs to get a new car or to get a new outfit or to live in a fancy house. Man, we're talking about life and death, for our chilldren. We're talking about the outcome, just self-esteem, the way they navigate the world.
That's worth. That's worth digging in and passing a hat around the family. That's just my values, and this whole thing really is an issue of values. How much are our children worth to us and when do we sound the alarm? As an institution, a system, as a school, as a leader, as a teacher, and as a parent, I would just say don't wait for your child to fail. That's the biggest lesson I learned from that. The sooner the better. Screen them, test them, and whatever you got to do, get to the root cause of what's going on and give them the support they need, because they can do it. They just need the help and guidance and support.
PA:
All right. Definitely and listening to the story and hearing you describe your daughter and teachers, “The sweet child.” “The quiet child.” Quite often those are the ones that do get overlooked. But then we've got those other kids who wear different masks, right, Kareem? So, not just a sweet, quiet child, you got the little clown.
KW:
Yeah.
PA:
Oh, it's better to make people laugh than to let them know what I don't know.
KW:
That's right.
PA:
I'll be a kid who gets kicked out the room. It just makes me think you know something you said to the way they navigate the world. They're gonna learn to navigate the world to get around what they can't do well if nobody's in there helping them, right?
KW:
Right. And, we have to put ourselves in a kid's perspective. So, let's say you are dyslexic, you may not even know it, but you're a ninth-grader. OK, maybe let's say call it 10th grade. And now you're in a room, your hormones are going crazy, right? You don't know what's happening, male or female. You got handsome boys and cute girls, and all this stuff is going on. And, your hormones are raging, and your worst nightmare is that the teacher calls on you. You're horrified because if they call on you and, like my daughter, with words literally floating on the page, if they call on you and all eyes are on you, what would you do to get out of that situation? Our kids aren’t crazy. They know the score. What do you have to do? And the sooner the better. If you're gonna do it, don't let them call on you because, like you said, I would rather be bad than dumb. I can cut up and I’m still be cool in school, but if I sit here and they call on me and I can't read, cat and rat. Then, all of a sudden, Houston, we have a problem.
So, our kids, especially our kids with learning differences, they need support sooner rather than later, so they're not putting those positions. That's a no-win situation, no challenge. You have to be in that. So, I'm just talking about the social aspect of it. In the emotional aspect of it, we got to remember they’re teenagers, or high or middle schoolers, and even I hate to say it even young children. There's the experience that many of us have. If we have a child with learning differences, they go to school one way and every day they come back a little bit different. It's like the light gets dimmer and dimmer. We're wondering what's going on. I know the school is saying everything's gonna be fine with time, but I know my child. Something is going on. So, we have to be alert and vigilant so that they're not put in those situations where they have to pick paths that we don't want them to take.
PA:
And, honestly, this leads us right into our next question. These kids that we talked about, the ones who struggle, for whatever reason. Including these kids with dyslexia. When they're looked at differently and when their instructional needs are not met, it adds to the challenges they face. I’d just to expand upon what you began to discuss, and I know you agree with this: How can educators teach so that all kids can learn to read? Because we talked about all. How can we teach all the kids to learn? And you started the conversation. I want you to reiterate and explain.
KW:
Sure. So, this is the power of Structured Literacy. This is the part of having a skilled-based Scope and Sequence. This is the power of, at a system level, having the assessments in place and the professional development for your teachers, and all the things that the American Federation of Teachers has been saying for 20 years that we need to do, that we just been ignoring them. But if I'm an educator, it's about taking a structured approach. There are people who say…Well, let me first say this, the reason why that's important is because when you take a structured approach and you're walking it up each step at a time, you're not gonna skip things. When you skip things, you lose kids because we're human. I know people like to think teachers have 15 different arms and two different heads and 20 different eyes, but we're human beings. And, you're gonna miss some stuff. It's just human nature. Now, I know there are some folks who are saying, “Well, are you talking about a scripted curriculum?” Yeah, yeah, but that doesn't mean that the teacher doesn't have agency. The teacher can then color it in. We’re the artist. Two teachers can take the same thing and teach them completely differently. That's just what it is. This profession is beautiful like that and you still add your own personality, your own spin on it. The way you approach instruction, the way you get kids to learn…It's going to be unique.
However, I have yet to meet a football team that didn't have a playbook. I have yet to meet a restaurant that didn't have recipes. We got to get out of our feelings a little bit. As my mom told me the other day, we have to keep the main thing. It's not an insult to be provided with guidance and to have some structure. It's just common sense. That's what professionals do. If you're a psychologist, you're looking at the DSM-IV. You're looking at the manual that shows you what the different disorders are and what the characteristics are like. That is normal in just about any profession, but for whatever reason.
Well, I know part of the reason we have taken it as an affront to say here is what the kid needs. Start with this and then plan accordingly and adjust it according to your professional level of expertise, acumen, and insight into the kids, community, and family. That's what has to happen, to the degree we can keep our eyes on what kids need and leverage a structured approach. I heard people who say, “Well, balanced literacy is fine. You can do it this way and you can do it that way.” OK, sure fine. But if what you mean by that is jump around, now we've got a problem. Because jumping around without the evidence, how do you know if you're missing kids? But if you're talking about walking up one step at a time and making sure you're hitting all the skills and making sure you're assessing them to make sure they got the skills and then, when they don't, you have a way to support them, now we're talking. It's just really common sense. But we've gotten away from that for a whole host of reasons.
PA:
So, what you're saying is have all the tools to teach all the things. So, when I think about all the things, what do educators need to know about the things? Those components of reading instruction. These are the ones that need to be in place that you were speaking of, so that students who are at risk, students who have dyslexia and need that direct, targeted instruction, tell us about all the things, Kareem.
KW:
Sure. All the things. OK. So, many people refer to the National Reading Panel as sort of the beginning of this, but this went back much further than that. You can go back to, it was Robert Flesch, and Why Johnny Can't Read, and all that. You can go back even further than that, but the things you mentioned are very clear. You’ve got to start with the sounds and the phonological awareness. How are people hearing and processing sounds? Then, how do we take those sounds and we match them to symbols, and then the code of how those symbols fit together and the rules that govern how those symbols make patterns. So, now we're getting into the alphabetics of things. So, that's the phonics. Then, you also have the ability to do that smoothly and that's your fluency. Then, you have the vocabulary. Now, you're building out exactly what those things mean and your depth of understanding of not just English but the origin of words, the Latin and Greek roots of prefixes or suffixes, and all the rest. So, now, you're talking about vocabulary and then you get into comprehension, which is a goal of reading. So, those are the core elements.
It comes to the big five, right? But you also have writing, which is key, especially if you've got a kid who's dyslexic and I just go one step further cursive writing. They're learning to connect sounds and blend, and it's a thing. We don't teach cursive writing in schools anymore. That's the mistake. That's one thing. But then you also have oral language development, which, especially for second language learners and people who need to learn academic English how you’re talking home might be one way, but how you’re talking school and on your job is going to be another way. So, we have to develop that and that should be done intentionally. So, those components apply in a very systematic way, not opportunistically. “Oh, I think they need this. I'm going to do this. I think they need …” That is a tough way to teach. But to be strategic, to be intentional, it takes planning, it takes quality materials, it takes collaboration, it takes time. But those are the key elements. Those are the things that you have to do.
Oftentimes, we talk about the five but leave off the writing and the oral language development. But I taught bilingual for almost 10 years and I know that you’ve got to have that too. In fact, I had a bilingual class, but I had many kids in there who didn't speak other languages. It was basically it just meant they could put anybody in my class and they did, but it all worked because all the kids benefited from oral language. Everybody benefits when you learn Latin and Greek roots. Everybody does. I know it's going to be tough and the cognates in Spanish and Italian and French and English, these words that are very similar. It also affirms your home language when you see that and it also deepens your preparation for a higher academic language. So, yeah, there's a way to do it, but you have to be intentional and study those five pillars and make sure that you're applying them in a systematic and direct, explicit way.
PA:
So, what you're talking about is not hard decisions, but decisions based on what students need, and you talked about Structured Literacy a number of times, and we know that it's so important for that educational equity when we think about giving all kids what they need. I'm going to hop right over into the leadership role here. Why are school leaders, our administrators here, essential? Why do we need them to understand that we need to have some changes in our practices about our reading instruction?
KW:
So, now, you're kicking the hornets nest because we could point to teachers and publishers and everybody. You can have your Scope and Sequence, you can have the testing, you can have all the things you want, but if you don't have good leadership in place, you’re fighting an uphill battle. Leadership matters. I used to be the executive director of an organization called New Leaders. I was in charge of the Western region and we would recruit people to become principals and we would train them and support them and then commission them and put them into schools to kind of help turn around schools. But one of the things, the hardest thing to teach was change management, because it wasn't on a rubric, it wasn't something that you could get a checklist and check off the box for. My contingent was we had to recruit for that. We had to recruit people who had the personality, who were grounded enough to be able to give feedback. Yeah, we could support you with the technical parts of that, but there's some things you can teach. There's some things you can't teach. What's challenging about this is that change management is a front-burner issue. If that's not right, nothing else matters. So, how do you get people to do things that they really don't have to do? If you really want to get down to it. How do you get, how do you lead people? And I would, just me and my linguistic background. That's what education is. That's what an educator is. The prefix E in Latin, eh means out of, and duco is to lead, or do kare in Latin, so ed, duco, ed, do kare, basically an educator, somebody who leads out of, and that's what. I don't care if you're a coach, a principal, a grade-level chair, instructionally. Your job is to move people out of one place into another, and to do that it's not with a rubric. You’ve got to have your systems in place, absolutely. You’ve got to have the technical things nailed down. The copier’s gotta be working, man. You’ve got to have all that stuff, or the books got to be there. But then there's also the adaptive challenges, or the ones that are just the human element of things.
Can you make the right case to the right people, because some people don't want to hear about the evidence just yet? You may have to just tell them about the importance of this socially, or maybe, “Hey, listen, if we want to protect our pension guess what we got to make sure we keep this institution going. We need to fix literacy.” Or, maybe it's, “Let me show you the research.” Maybe we're going to do some lesson study. You just have to know your teachers, which means you have to be in a relationship with your teachers and a lot of leaders…We're so busy, stuck in the power dynamic and the authority that we forget that we're leading people. I don't care what your title is. Yeah, I know you're the principal. I get it. You’re the evaluator…Good luck with that. If you're going to be a leader, then people are going to follow you. Even if it's out of curiosity, they're willing to just check it out because they trust you, they respect you and you're making the case that they need.
We have a leadership crisis in this country, in our schools, a leadership crisis.
There's no way that, as educators, we would be where we are if we had proper leadership. My first day as a principal, I probably should have lost my job because it was such a crazy environment. In order to do what was right, I had to put my job on the line, day one. That was the first time out of many, and so my challenge to leaders is the first thing you have to ask yourself is are you here to get a job or are you here to do a job? And if you're here to do a job, there's going to be some risks you have to take, and that might mean standing in the breach between your teachers and the system, and you have to be willing to serve them as they need you to be, even if it's not how you necessarily want to show up. You have to be prepared and grounded and adaptive so that you can be what you need to be for them
PA:
In the end, bringing everyone to where they need to be for the kids…To lead out of.
KW:
That's right. That's your job. That is your job. I can't say that enough. That is your job. Your job is to get the teachers to the point where they need to be so that they can get the kids where they need to be. It's very simple, and when we lose sight of that, as a principal you're lost. It's not about power. It's not about your next job. It's not about the mandates that are coming from the central office. I know they’re coming in fast and furious, but that's not what your job is. It's not about just checklists. So, there's a difference between a manager and a leader and oftentimes we get those two things confused. Yes, we have to be.
I know some school systems, like, back in the day, Aspire. They used to have a separate role, at least in the barrier. They separated. They had almost two principals. One, who was an instructional person, and one who was an operations person. They split the role because they recognized that management might be over here but instructional leadership is over here. But most school systems it's one thing, but don't get it twisted and think that the managerial stuff means that you don't have to be a leader. We have to be an instructional leader and that's a heavy burden, but it's actually what teachers need to be able to move from point A to point B.
PA:
All right. Well, honestly, you did so well with answering my next question because I was gonna ask you about making a case for supporting change, and you did that for me already. District leaders need to be change leaders and you made that very clear. I appreciate that.
KW:
Well, let me say one quick thing about that before we move on. District leaders have to be courageous. District leaders, and when I say courageous what I mean is district leaders have to be able to raise their hand and say, “We're gonna make a shift. I'm sorry we had a curriculum that wasn’t in line to the research consensus. I'm sorry, we had you do all these professional development things and now, with greater evidence, we realize that might not have been the best use of your time. I'm sorry, but there were kids, the test scores and this and that, but apparently we were doing some things systemwide that may not have been best practice. I'm sorry.”
So, leadership takes humility. It takes courage, and it takes a heart of service. Otherwise, we're just hirelings and it's something that we have to be resolute about. Leadership requires a higher degree of accountability. Everybody wants accountability for the teachers and the principals. What about the superintendent? What about the chief academic office? What about the school board? I hate to say it like that. But come on now…You can't have this many kids who can't read and nobody's accountable. And, it's not at the point of service. It's higher up the food chain. So, I just wanna put it out there, in love because it's something that folks need to consider.
PA:
Yes, I agree with you. Lead onward without fear. And not to appease but to lead out of, because I think sometimes we do move into that idea of appeasement, right Kareem?
KW:
Hold on Pam, hold on Pam. I didn't say without fear. I didn't say without fear.
PA:
OK. (Laughter)
KW:
What I'm saying is. What I'm saying is, it's like Dr. King said, there's some things you do not because it's convenient, but we do it because it's right. That requires courage. That means even though it's hard and it's scary and I might lose my job. When I said that first day I risked my job, I thought I might lose my job that day. I’ve got a wife and young kids at home. I was not happy, skipping along, going to drop this letter on the superintendent's desk. No, but it was the right thing to do, and people will follow that kind of principal. They all know that if you put yourself on the line, OK, now I might consider putting myself on the line. But you can't ask me to spend all my time and risk this and risk that and take all these risks but you sitting all cozy in your office and you won't take a chance. Courage says, even though I'm afraid, I'm going to do it anyhow. And that's what we need from our leaders. The higher standard of care.
PA:
I absolutely love it. So, I stand corrected: Onward with courage.
KW:
That's right. That's right.
PA:
All right, so tell me, what does the future look like for American schools and students in your opinion, Kareem?
KW:
So, I think this is at seven year. If you look at the arc of social justice in this country, there's about a 30-year wave. Every 30 years or so, we have a new wave of impact, beginning with well, I go before slavery, but you know, whether it's the age of industrialization. Whether it's industrialization. Whether it's civil rights era, it's like a 30-year wave, and right now we're at the beginning of a wave. Just historically speaking, society has changed. Where, before…My father he wasn't the best reader, he loved history, but he wasn't the best reader but you could not be the greatest reader and you could get a good middle-class union job, raise a family, and all the rest. That was what 50 years ago, 40 years ago. It’s not like that. Nowadays, if you can't read, you’re in a world of hurt. And, so, what I see is a real kind of split or bifurcation. There are some states that are making hardcore pivots toward the science of reading. They're doing things that will include all students, including students with dyslexia. They screen them from the very beginning. They give them the supports that they need. Others aren't doing that.
So, what I see is you're gonna have a split in terms of which states are moving in a healthier direction for their children and which ones are not, and it's already started to happen. So, there's some states and I would include California. It's where, you know black folks in California we're like an endangered species right now. When I was a kid, we were all up and down the state. Now, the education is so rough and kids can't read and you can't live here if you don't have a good education. Economically speaking, there's no floor. Homelessness has just exploded because you don't have access into the middle class now like you might have had in my father's generation without an education. And, so, what I see is it's coming up on decision time and I think there'll be some states who are making those pivots in over a seven-year period. Their economies will turnaround. The outcomes for kids are going to improve, and then you have some states that are for whatever reason. For whatever reason whether it's because they're mired in ideology or because they have other points of interest or priority they're gonna lag behind, but there are going to be some folks I look at New Mexico who at the bottom of the list in terms of NAEP scores, but they're making some pivots. They're looking at Mississippi and saying wait a second, they used to be last, like us, 49th and 50th every year. Now, they're at 18th and we're still at 50th. What did they do? And, so, I see that. I see states making concrete turns.
The other thing is, I think this pandemic is a big shift. It's never gonna be the same as what it was because we had a front-row seat in terms of what was going on for our kids, and so I think parents now are more informed. That's what this movie is supposed to be about. It's supposed to be about informing people, and they are going to demand something different for their kids. They're going to and not just the folks whose children have dyslexia I know that's a loud and active group but others as well.
So, I think that's the pivot that is going to happen, but I don't think it's gonna be everywhere. I think you're gonna have holdouts. There are some states, for whatever reason, some districts, some cities, some schools, some grade levels, some teachers, some parents, some universities, who are just goint to stay where they're at, because change is hard. So, that's what I see, and at a certain point in time, with good leadership, we'll have a national reckoning on this, and you can say the same thing at the state level, the county level, the city level, and the school level. There has to be a reckoning, but before then there's going to be a bifurcation. There's going to be a split. I'm just hoping that me and mine, and as many kids as I can get ahold of, and as many teachers and educators and superintendents can go the way toward getting better outcomes for kids.
PA:
Great. I hope that is the direction that we are moving and that we ride that wave and crest that wave, bringing all the teachers and students right along with us. Thank you so much, Kareem. Really, thank you for joining us today. It's been a pleasure speaking with you. It's been inspiring, and I know I speak for educators everywhere when I say thank you for your dedication to literacy, learning, and educational justice. Please tell our listeners how they can learn more about your work and how they can view the documentary, The Right to Read.
KW:
Well, OK my organization, Fulcrum, they're going to kick me if I don't get it right, https://www.fulcrum-oakland.org. They can go to the website. They can get information there. The Right to Read film is https://www.therighttoreadfilm.org, I believe, and they have screenings all across the country as it's mostly in institutions right now. So, institutions or organizations, nonprofits, will have, hold of screening, universities, etc., and then communities will get together and watch it, or schools, or school systems, etc. So, it's all across the country right now and, in fact, last I looked there were like 150 different requests for speaking and everything. I was like I ain't going to all that. I can't. It is what it is. Let's get a strategy together where we can support people. So, there's a booklet that you can download to also walk through it, because you can't expect the team to go everywhere. But it's just supposed to be a conversation starter so you can go to that website and register for a screening. In fact, every now and then, you'll see a free screening. Every now and then in your local area. Check it out. And whether it's because we're celebrating Juneteenth or whether it's because it's National Dyslexia Month or something, there's always something around. So, keep an eye out for that. Go to the website and take a look.
We have a social impact director and yeah, it's pretty good, and I'm really grateful to be working underneath Jenny McKenzie, who's a director, and LeVar Burton, executive producer. That's kind of like his life work. He's all about literacy and getting people to read, and you might remember him on Reading Rainbow and other things and apparently this is his life's work. It's really good to see people with some cache taking it seriously too, because it's a everybody thing. It's not just about somebody whose kid can't read it, somebody who's on this side or that side of the track. This is an all-of-us issue. So, I really appreciate his framing of this as well. But those are the ways you can get ahold of me or the movie directly, whether it's for your institution or for your community group.
PA:
Kareem, I just have to ask: Do you have any additional thoughts before we sign off today?
KW:
The only thing I would add is our biggest challenge, and I actually think our biggest challenge to getting kids to read is not a technical thing. I think it's our culture. As a society, we're so separated, we're so divided that it stems into every aspect. And I'm all for diversity. I'm all for people having various thoughts and beliefs and ideologies. That's all fine, political ideologies, I don't have a problem with that. But, man, we ought to at least be able to come together on this. I mean, if we can't come together on this, that we want all our kids to be able to read, if only for our own survival. Your kid being able to read is good for me.
That kid might open up a business. Your kid might invent something useful. Your kid might improve the economy. Your kid is going to pay taxes. Your kid, and at the very least, I don't want your kid hitting my wife over the head because your kid is desperate. Hello, somebody, like we have to all our kids means all our kids.
It don't mean we have to like each other, but we’ve got to at least have some sort of a mutual self-interest, because we're going to have a society. Otherwise it's just what is it? Lord of the Flies. We can't go out like that. So, we have to really be focused on all of our kids, and that means our kids need some things. So, yeah, sure, my kid can learn how to read, and or I can get private tutoring, or I learn a Montessori method, or I learn whole language about literacy. It's fine, it's all great, wonderful, and guess what? That's not going to get the greatest number of kids reading. If you want all kids, it means I have to intentionally go after that child too, which means how am I going to get the greatest number of kids reading? And that's Structured Literacy. That means that we include the children with dyslexia. That means we include kids with different linguistic backgrounds. That means we include kids with different amounts of money in their parents' pockets. That's what Structured Literacy can do. That's why it's an equity issue and that's why it's important.
PA:
Thank you once again. This is Pam Austin, bringing the best thought leaders in education directly to you. Please join us next month for another great EDVIEW360 podcast.
Narrator:
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