EDVIEW360
Hosted by Pam Austin and Greg Hullett, these discussions will feature dialogues with experienced educators, inspiring thought leaders, social media influencers, and leading education innovators.
EDVIEW360
Teacher, Parent, and Author Lindsay Kemeny’s Journey to Science-Based Reading Instruction
Join us as we talk with Lindsay Kemeny, a parent, elementary school teacher, and author of, 7 Mighty Moves. In this inspiring and eye-opening discussion, Kemeny shares her journey into science-based reading after her son was diagnosed with dyslexia and depression. Kemeny will discuss the key changes she made in her classroom after taking a deep dive into effective literacy instruction.
As this conversation explores the intricacies of effective reading instruction supported by comprehensive research, Kemeny shares evidence-based “moves” that will give you a road map to elevate your teaching practices. Through real-world examples and interactive discussions, this conversation will help you build confidence in your reading instruction.
We’ll explore:
- Research-backed methodologies for effective reading instruction
- Practical, evidence-based teaching moves
- Ways to develop confidence in reading instruction
Welcome to EdView 360.
Speaker 2:I want to say don't be hard on yourself. Have grace both with yourself and grace for others. We're all at different points of our learning journey, Like we all have to start somewhere, right. So start, begin your journey. Focus on one thing at a time, because I know it can feel overwhelming to be like, oh my gosh, I got to overhaul all my literacy instruction. But choose one thing, Start with the one thing and then, when you're ready, add something else. And I would say focus on progress, not perfection, both in your teaching and in your students' learning.
Speaker 1:You just heard from author and educator Lindsay Kimeny. Lindsay is our guest this month on the EdView 360 podcast.
Speaker 3:Hello, this is Pam Austin. Welcome back to the EdVue 360 podcast series. We are so excited to have you with us today for our April Literacy Conversation. I'm conducting today's podcast from my native New Orleans, louisiana. Today we are excited to welcome author, educator and science of reading advocate, lindsay Kemeney. Welcome author, educator and science of reading advocate, lindsay Kemeny. Lindsay is a seasoned elementary school teacher who is currently teaching first grade. After her son was diagnosed with dyslexia and depression, she began her deep dive into effective literacy instruction. She is a CERI certified structured literacy classroom teacher and holds a master's degree in curriculum and instruction. Lindsay is the author of books Seven Mighty Moves, seven Mighty Moves Reading Resources and her latest Rock your Literacy block. Her articles have appeared in the Reading League Journal and IDA Perspectives. Welcome, lindsay, let's talk about your journey to science-based reading instruction. Here we go.
Speaker 2:Yes, thank you. I'm so honored to be here, so thank you for having me.
Speaker 3:All right, let's get right to it. Let's start in the most important place, the beginning of your journey. Tell our listeners about your experience with your son and learning to read, and how that transformed who you are as a reading teacher.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, this is my third son and the first two learned to read rather easily. So I was pretty confused and alarmed when I was doing all of the same things I did with my first two with my third and it didn't seem to be working. He was struggling to learn how to read. I was doing all the things I had been taught in college in my early years of teaching. I had been reading to him from the time he was a baby and I was really rather embarrassed because I'm like I'm a teacher and I can't help my own son learn to read. So it was when he was towards the end of his second grade year when we finally did some outside testing and that's when we found out that he has dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyscalculia. So it's a reading disability, writing disability, math disability. And this just started me on my journey, because I had to find out what do students with dyslexia need to learn to read? Well, that led to what does everyone need when you learn to read? What happens in the brain when you learn to read? And it was just like I felt like the starved animal. I couldn't get enough. I was watching webinars, listening to lectures, reading anything I could get my hands on. It just really lit a fire under me.
Speaker 2:But then what really lit a fire under me was the fact that my son was diagnosed with depression at this time as well, and his depression all centered around his struggles learning to read. And it actually he was diagnosed, but I didn't really understand the depths of his pain until months later. And it was so difficult because he said things and he did things that no parent should have to hear and no child should have to feel. I will never forget. I'm never quite sure how much to share, because I don't want to trigger anybody, but I will never forget the moment. He never quite sure how much to share, because I don't want to trigger anybody, but I will never forget the moment he looked at me and he said I wish I was one of those babies that got left in a hot car. It took my breath away. I felt like someone punched me in the stomach and I just couldn't imagine his pain, couldn't imagine his pain and I just really saw firsthand how tightly connected self-esteem and the ability to read are.
Speaker 2:Because my son is not alone. There's so many others out there who I just I have so much admiration for them because they're there in our schools every day hoping someone will help them. But they're filled with these feelings of inadequacy and it's not their fault and I just want to help them, and so this is like a long answer to your question. But we did all these things to help my son and, of course, when things got so bad and he was making these suicidal comments and these actions, we took him to a professional to get therapy. But I found out, of everything that we did, what helped the most was the ability to read, Because as his reading improved, his self-esteem improved and it was beautiful to see, it was amazing to witness that growth, and that is why I'm so passionate about what I do, because I want that for all kids.
Speaker 3:That is a transformation. I'm just listening to all the varying emotions, from frustration because you were doing what you were told to do, right To feelings of inadequacy and the joy when you find the information, but still it was tough work to help your son because of the depression. And the reality is you find the information, but still it was tough work to help your son because of the depression. And the reality is school is the first place where we really feel successful, isn't it? And how that was the key. Oh, that's wonderful. Thank you for sharing. Lindsay, you talk about the transformation in the learning for your son. When we think about that transition of the science of reading instruction moving into your classroom, was that a tough one. What challenges did you have to overcome? Personally, you shared some, but professionally, in your classroom, when you were working with your students.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so when my son was first diagnosed, I was teaching kindergarten and so I first started this learning and making changes in my kindergarten classroom. Then I got moved to second grade and I was applying the changes in second grade and then I got moved to first grade and so I got to apply the things in first grade and it was challenging, but I had this very deep sense of purpose. But I had this very deep sense of purpose. So it was like I was really motivated and some of my challenges were just my own emotions, because I felt so many things that you just kind of touched on where I felt really guilty. I felt really bad that I didn't know some of the things that I know now and I felt like if I had been better prepared, there were so many other students I could have helped more than I did. And I felt anger. I was angry at myself, I was angry at others, and I've really learned to let go of a lot of that now and just focus on improvement and getting better and just looking forward instead of looking back. And I needed help.
Speaker 2:It was challenging not having some resources and I would do things like write grants. I'm so grateful for my principal. Because my principal had to really trust me when I would come to her and say, hey, I don't want to use this in my classroom, this is why, and hey, can I get to use this in my classroom, this is why, and hey, can I get this? Or how about this? This is why I need these things. And I feel like she had to go out on a limb a little bit at first, until she saw the results that I, the results with my class, and then she really trusted me and I really appreciate that, because having a supportive admin is huge.
Speaker 3:Oh, definitely true. When I think professionally about how we feel when we've learned, when we know better, we do better right and going through those emotions ourselves. I think there are many educators that's been there I'm one of them as well and it's just so heartwarming to hear that you had that administrative support and can move on and learn more and dive more deeply. You know now that you are currently all in with science-based reading. Let's talk about your approach to phonemic awareness and phonics instruction. What does that look like? What can other teachers of reading learn from your previous approach compared to what you're doing now?
Speaker 2:Okay, well, with phonemic awareness. It's kind of funny because the first thing I had to do was just learn that it was a thing. I didn't even know what phonemic awareness was, that that was a thing I should consider when I had students who struggle. So that was my first move was just okay, I've got to teach phonemic awareness intentionally. But then, as I learned more, I refined my knowledge and I learned that, hey, our sessions focused on phonemic awareness. Those can be brief. We're talking a few minutes a day and I can really focus on getting to the phoneme. We don't need to get stuck with the larger chunks, but we need students to be able to get right to the phoneme level blending those phonemes to read, pulling apart, segmenting those phonemes to spell, and I can connect the phonemic awareness with letters. So that was an interesting understanding too. That I had to learn was like yes, we can do a brief, oral only phonemic awareness warmup, but then I really need to show them how like that warmup, like that is exactly what we're doing when we're reading and writing, and I need to show them how it connects with letters. And then with phonics instruction.
Speaker 2:I like, okay, I would have been offended years ago if you were like, do you teach phonics? I'd be like, yes, of course. But when I think back, I was facilitating phonics activities. I wasn't explicitly teaching phonics. I didn't have any scope and sequence to follow. I never even considered that I wasn't explicitly teaching phonics. I didn't have any scope and sequence to follow. I never even considered that. I would just like what word did they miss in the book we read yesterday? I guess I'll teach that and so and like now, phonics is one of my favorite things to teach. It's my strength and it used to be a huge weakness. But phonics explicit phonics instruction is clear. It's very interactive. I'm channeling Dr Anita Archer here when I say I do something, they do something. I say something, they say something, I read something, they read something, I write something, they write something. Right, and I love teaching phonics. It's just night and day from what it was before.
Speaker 3:That openness is what I'm hearing from you to change and to shift. I love the word to use intentional, so you intentionally began teaching, incorporating that phonemic awareness. There's another word I also love refine. Quite often teachers, we tend to think because I'm guilty of it too, the first time I'm doing it it's going to be perfect and it's got to be good. And if the kids don't get it, I didn't do it right. You know. Intentional refinement and that shift, lindsay, from that incidental phonics to systematic phonics, it's just music to my ears and it's something that our listeners appreciate hearing, so that we can look at that consistency of what the expectations are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I love that word refine too, because I feel like that's what we're constantly doing. I mean, every year I feel like I get a little bit better because I'm refining some area of my instruction right, and it's just like there's always more to learn and more to do and more ways we can grow.
Speaker 3:Definitely, and it never ends. Refinement never ends. Let's talk about some decoding strategies and the importance when we're decoding to avoid the queuing system that can be popular in some places. Why is decoding instruction so critical for all our young readers, especially for those who struggle, like you mentioned the struggling parents situation you have with your son.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, okay, in order to store words in long-term memory for effortless, instant retrieval, what do the students need to do? They need to connect the sounds they hear with the letters they see on the page, with the meaning of the word. Those three things have to happen. But you think about some of those three cueing strategies that I did for years, where we're like look at the picture. Does it give you a clue what happens with their eyes? Their eyes go off the word so fast. Or read the rest of the sentence. What would make sense there, where they're figuring it out from context? Where do their eyes go? Are their eyes staying on the words? No, I need them to be familiar with the details of the word and in order for them to do that, their eyes need to stay on the word, decode it left from right. I love that. Dr Seidenberg said the best cue to a word is the word itself. I don't need all these other things. I need to direct students to that word and to decode it.
Speaker 3:All right, you have to sit out. Quote one more time, Lindsay. We need to hear it again.
Speaker 2:Dr Seidenberg's best cue to a word is the word itself.
Speaker 3:That's music to my ears as well. Oh, thank you so much for sharing that. What about? Sight words, though In your previous understanding of them as well. Oh, thank you so much for sharing that. What about sight words, though, right, and your previous understanding of them? What do you know about sight words now, and how do you know now the impacts of your instruction and how is it a better approach? Yeah, okay, this is what you've done before.
Speaker 2:So what I thought before was that a sight word is a word that can't be sounded out. That's what I thought. But you go look at, like the fry frequency or dolch list and look how many words are completely decodable if you just know your basic alphabet, I mean you're going to have it, you're going to have in, you're going to have, and there's no reason to teach those words separately and then others will be decodable. Once they're taught that phonics skill, like once they know TH, then they can read this and that. Once they learn that EA spells E, right, and CH, diagraph spells CH, then they can read the word each and then the other ones.
Speaker 2:They will have some irregularity. But there's also a lot of the sounds or the letters in the word that are completely regular. It's like one or two parts that are hard. So we don't need to teach them as these visual units, which is what I did before, where we're just memorizing them as a whole. The problem with that is it's stored in your memory differently and there's a limit to how many words you can memorize as a whole, and so the kindergarten teacher might not realize there's a problem. The first grade teacher might not realize there's a problem. It's going to be like the second or the third or the fourth grade teacher when that student can't memorize those words as a unit anymore, they've reached their cap. And then those teachers are like oh my goodness, the student phonemic awareness, and so that is like they can bypass phonemic awareness by just memorizing the whole word, because they don't want to do that work of breaking down how the sounds connect with the letters.
Speaker 2:So I have a good friend, an adult, who has dyslexia, and this is how he described learning to read when he was younger. He's like I memorized words. That's what I did. I memorized words and didn't even realize that those letters represent the sounds in our language. So now when I teach high-frequency words, I'm thinking about that. Guess what? Even though it's a high frequency word, we can segment those sounds, we can think about how they attach with the spellings, even when they're irregular, and we can bring in some etymology and morphology of the word, if the student is ready for it, and show them how that connects right. So yeah, just much different.
Speaker 3:Right, and that adds an extra layer when you bring in etymology and morphology for students to make a connection for them. Awesome, wonderful insight here. Well, thinking about accuracy, influence, you know, we hear the word automaticity all the time. What's the difference between accuracy and fluency and automaticity? Isn't that the same thing?
Speaker 2:Okay, All right. So think of fluency. Fluency is a combination of three things Accuracy, rate and prosody. Accuracy is first foremost and forever the foundation of fluency, as Dr Jan Hasbrook says. So accuracy is what we're looking at first. If that student is really inaccurate in the reading, we're not going to be like read faster, we're not going to focus on the rate, we're going to be focusing on the accuracy. And then you mentioned automaticity. So automaticity is a combination of accuracy and rate, and I heard Dr Hasbrook said that automaticity is the heart and soul of fluency and I really like that.
Speaker 2:And sometimes, because I'm teaching first grade right now, sometimes we think in the lower grades we're not working on fluency, but we are because we are building that automaticity. They need automaticity, which is, remember that accuracy and the rate. They need that with the letter sounds. So the kindergarten teachers working on letter sounds hey, that's where our fluency begins, getting those automatic. Then you can think of fluency at the word level and then at the sentence and text level. So there's so many things that go into play.
Speaker 3:So multiple layers here, but getting that base skill of being able to decode accurately will lead to that fluency. Yeah, all right, I love it. Thank you so much. So what are some strategies reading teachers can implement to improve accuracy influence? You mentioned a few things just now. Working on those phonics skills. Is there anything in particular you would recommend?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, yes, like with accuracy, you see they have low accuracy. That is telling you, hey, we've got to strengthen their phonics. And well, it could be a combination of phonics and phonemic awareness, right. So you're looking at that, pay attention to the words they're missing, because you might see some patterns like you might see, oh, they're missing those inflectional endings, right, or those suffixes at the end, like E-D-I-N-G. You're thinking, okay, maybe I need to practice that with them. Or you might notice, oh gosh, they keep missing vowel teams. I've noticed that they don't know those vowel teams. Well then, that's an area where, hey, you can pull out, you can say, okay, they're missing E-A. I'm going to do a little lesson with them. We're going to practice writing words with EA. We're going to spell words with EA. You can make a little word list to have them practice to improve that accuracy and fluency.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of different things I like to do for fluency. One thing that I love doing, which is something I learned from Nora Chabazi, which I changed the title. I call it Read, model, read Again. So the student reads a portion of the text. It might be like a paragraph. If I'm a kindergarten teacher, it might just be a sentence. The student reads it first. Then I go back and I read the same part, so that same page. And I have them track their finger while I read and say, now listen to me while I read that, and I read it and I'm going to model appropriate pacing and phrasing expression. And then they go back and read it again, so they read that same part again. I love this because they're getting another exposure to those words and they also they're better the second time so they can work. They're a little more accurate, they're working on their fluency more the second time and they'll work on expression. It's really fun because I'll hear them mimic my expression when they read it and so I love that and it just builds their confidence because they're like, hey, that was so good my second they read it and so I love that and it just builds their confidence because they're like hey, that was so good my second time reading it.
Speaker 2:And another thing I like to do for students who they're already pretty accurate but they could use some help improving their rate. I never want to say read faster. I don't want it to be about that, but I love to do something. It's got a fancy name, it's called the neurological impress method, but it's just a fancy way of saying read at the same time as a student. But you want to read just a little bit quicker than how they normally read. So I will put my finger over the top of the words and they're going to track underneath and I'm going to say let's read this page together, try to keep your voice with mine, and then I'm going to be reading while they read with me, and so I love to do that.
Speaker 2:And the last thing I'll share for fluency I want to share one more thing. I love a class-wide fluency intervention called partner reading, paragraph shrinking, and I learned this from Dr Burns, an evidence-based activity for grades two through eighth grade. And wow, my like the results of this. I started it in second grade and now I am trying to think I'm not going to remember my numbers now but our class median of words, correct per minute like, went up like maybe 20 words in like two weeks. It's crazy. I'd have to go back and look because I'm forgetting the numbers. And I do it now in first grade, this activity, but I wait until January or February and then usually I'll start them in decodables before I transfer them in, so, anyway, I could spend a whole hour just talking about partner reading, paragraph shrinking, but I love doing that to help fluency as well.
Speaker 3:All right, wonderful ideas. I know our participants are appreciating hearing these variations. We're looking at being diagnostic and prescriptive and we're focusing on where students are maybe making errors in the area of decoding and also very targeted on those fluency practice opportunities. I love the variations that you share. Thank you so much, lindsay.
Speaker 4:Voyager Sopris Learning is the reading, writing and math intervention specialist With four decades of results. We provide evidence-based interventions and assessments that help educators ensure academic success for all students. Learn more at voyagersopriscom.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and can I just chime in Because you were talking about that practice Exactly, and Dr Pam Kastner said that if it's been taught but not mastered, there is probably a practice gap. And I love that and I'm always thinking like, as I'm teaching throughout the day how much practice are my students getting? Are they getting enough? If they don't have it, how can I increase the opportunities for them to practice, with the opportunity for feedback, not just on their own right, because they need that feedback.
Speaker 3:Right, the practice gap. Oh, I love it. Thank you so much for adding that. Yeah, let's shift a little bit from. I'm thinking about practicing. Quite often there are decodable books out there. Can you talk a little bit about the codable readers, those books that we use for maybe our beginning and struggling students? How do they fit?
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, okay. So the year my son was diagnosed is also the first year I was teaching kindergarten, and I remember being so excited because you spend all this time teaching letter names and sounds and I was so excited to bring my little kindergartners to my small group table and say now you can read words, I'm going to show you how you can read books, words, I'm going to show you how you can read books. But the books that I had were those predictable repetitive books, and so it was like we cleaned up the kitchen, we cleaned up the garage, we cleaned up the bedroom, and you think about those books. They're filled with these sound spelling correspondences that students have not been taught. So the only way for them to read those books is to memorize the pattern and then use the picture to guess from the pictures. And so I remember stopping my students and saying oh wait, oh, you can't sound this one out. Look at the picture. Does it give you a clue? And I was like, oh, like. I said that all the time when I taught second grade and I didn't think anything of it.
Speaker 2:And then it was when I was teaching kindergarten, these brand new fragile readers, that I was like I am giving them the wrong idea of what reading is. And we just spent all this time practicing our letter sounds, and now I want them to practice like we were teaching them. And now I want them to practice the letter sounds. And I'm asking them to practice Like we were teaching them. And now I want them to practice the letter sounds and I'm asking them to do something completely different.
Speaker 2:And so I started getting uneasy with what I had been taught, and one of the first changes I made in my classroom was to get decodable books. So now a decodable book has the sound symbol correspondences that you have taught them. And let me tell you that, as a former kindergarten teacher, even as a first grade teacher, it's a lot easier to listen to a child read those predictable, repetitive texts because they sound fluent already, they sound like they're reading and it takes a lot more patience to listen to them slowly sound out Sat sat. On the next page it's like the same word. They do it again Sat sat.
Speaker 2:But that is a critical step. We cannot skip that step and they need to go through that productive struggle to really solidify those phonics concepts, solidify being able to blend the sounds, and they will take off in the future. So it's going to sound a little slower at the beginning than the ones who are just memorizing, but the ones who are really solidifying those concepts. They're going to become great readers because they've got the foundational skills right. So I love decodables because we're just talking about practice. This allows them to practice what you're teaching.
Speaker 3:That's wonderful, that productive struggle, slowing down in order to accelerate later on. You know, what was running through my mind just now was application, and sometimes it's not easy right? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But oh, I do want to share. I remember that kindergarten year when I got the decodables Okay, and I had changed right Because I had been using predictable, repetitive text. I changed to decodables and one of my little students who he would later actually be diagnosed with dyslexia, he said he was reading the Decodable and he yelled and he goes Mrs Kemeny, I am actually reading the words and like his joy was just whoa overflowing and it was the best. But it's also like he knew the difference. He knew the difference of what he was doing before and now. Oh my gosh, I'm actually reading the words.
Speaker 3:Wow, true success. That is beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. Oh, that is awesome. So we've been talking a lot about decoding. Using those decodable books, students applying the skills that they're learning. How can we build vocabulary and background knowledge? What should educators do to build these skills in every lesson and every subject, because they're going to be learning something new for all of their school-wide career, right yeah?
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, this is so important. We need to be doing this from the time they enter our schools and we don't want to like over-focus on one side of Scarborough's reading rope than the other. Right, and so vocabulary and background knowledge are part of those upper strands of Scarborough's reading rope. Those are critical. Oral language is the foundation of everything and this is part of that. So students can learn vocabulary words implicitly and explicitly right. So we should be teaching explicitly teaching vocabulary words from the time they enter the schools. In addition, we can elevate the language that we're using with our students because we can use that advanced vocabulary and they will start to use it.
Speaker 2:I remember when I said to my students it's like the beginning of the year and I said, please get out your anthologies. And they all looked around what the heck is she talking about? And I'm like an anthology is a big book that has a collection of many other stories in it. Can you get out your anthology? And then it was so fun because they started using the word. Right, so we can definitely elevate the language and they will rise to that and it's so important because you don't know if they're being exposed to that language.
Speaker 2:Read-alouds, read-alouds are so important because, again, they're going to be exposed to language that they might not regularly. That language in our text is more advanced than the ones we use in conversation and this is also where you're going to be building that background knowledge just by reading all kinds of texts about all sorts of different things, both fascinating nonfiction and rich fiction and literature. So, yeah, we need to be attending to both of those things, and then I will say it doesn't mean that we don't teach strategies or comprehension strategies, because we still do and the strategies are in service of building that knowledge, right? So I'm teaching my students how can we come up with what the main gist of this paragraph was, or what was that story about? I'm going to help them that. We're going to model monitoring, we're going to summarize, we're going to do a lot of different things to deepen our knowledge.
Speaker 3:Right and a lot of oral conversation with that right. I love the idea of incorporating those read-alouds because I don't think it stops in the primary grades. It can move up and up in the use of that oral language. Thank you for sharing that as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and just the wide reading too, as students are ready. We're not only exposing our younger students to decodables because we're reading aloud to them and then, as they're ready, they're transitioning out of decodables into regular texts. For example, my first graders it's March right now we read Frog and Toad last week, we're reading Click Clack Moo this week. So we're getting them into regular text and as they go up the grades, you're helping them access that complex text. So you're doing a variety of things modeling it, choral reading, partner reading, lots of things, because they're going to learn background knowledge and vocabulary as they're reading.
Speaker 3:Right. I love, explicitly and implicitly, two ways that they gain those skills there. All right, now we don't want to forget about writing instruction and comprehension. I want you to give our listeners some ideas of how you incorporate writing, instruction and comprehension. How important is that?
Speaker 2:Okay, I could spend an hour talking about writing instruction with you. I feel like I've been doing so many more moves around writing and it's so exciting. But I love connecting what we're writing about to what we're reading about. I mean it's reciprocal because it's going to deepen their comprehension of what we're reading. Plus, it's going to improve their writing and their writing skills too. I mean, if you think about when you have to write about something, you really have to understand it. And so when we are reading a text and I might say we're going to be writing, our writing prompt this week is going to be about this. So let's listen, you know, or kind of guide them a little bit. They're going to be listening or reading, paying a little more attention as they read, because my students love writing and so they really they know that it's going to strengthen their writing if they know a lot about the topic.
Speaker 2:So, for example, in our core program we have been learning and reading. In our ELA program I should specify we've been learning and reading about animal habitats, and so last week our prompt I chose just one of the habitats that we were learning about and our prompt was like explain how Arctic animals adapted to their habitat, and so that was our prompt and so we were working on that. And I want to be clear when I say that's their prompt, I'm not just assigning a prompt. That's what I used to do, that's what I thought, that's what I thought writing was. But I'm guiding them and helping them through that whole writing process. We're going to plan our ideas, we're going to organize our outline and then we're going to write. So I helped them with the outline. Now they're writing on their own. I walk around and circle and help and it's amazing to see it's so neat to write about what we're reading.
Speaker 2:And then this week it changed things up. So last week we were writing informational, this week we're writing opinion, and so I mentioned we're reading Click Clack Moo. And so my prompt was like should Farmer Brown get the ducks a diving board or not? And oh, the discussions. If you came to my first grade class, it's so fun because we're having lots of discussions. Remember that oral language talking I've got different sides. Some are like yes, and this is why, and some are no, and this is why. And so it's so fun because now when we go back and we partner read that click-clack-moo Farmer Brown, they are really engaged in that text because they know they're also writing about it. So I just it's kind of neat, it's going to support the comprehension and the writing and I feel like I keep rambling.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry, no, no, no. This is so exciting to hear really practical ways you are applying these strategies and the idea that you begin with the oral. You start with the instruction, that direct guided instruction, so students truly know and understand what they're supposed to do, and writing from text that they've read. Oh, my goodness, I've just read about this and I get to write about what I've read. And one thing that was very telling you started at the beginning my students love writing, your students love writing because you are scaffolding and giving them a direct, explicit instruction and guiding them toward being successful with writing. It's a process.
Speaker 3:It doesn't happen overnight. So no I appreciate the long-winded stories because they give us some insight on what's been working with you, based on what you've learned and what you've applied in your classroom, so I think that's very practical.
Speaker 2:Well, and can I just give a shout out? I got to give a shout out to Dr Leslie Ludd from Think SRSD because she has really helped me. She's helped my writing really come alive and so I'm so grateful and my students will cheer when it's time for writing and that is just like really so special.
Speaker 3:Oh, yes, that is exciting. What are some of the most critical, maybe the best evidence-based, most effective I'm trying to come up with all my adjectives here. What are some moves that you use that maybe some of our participants, maybe someone in my audience, will look I'd like to try some of these moves that she's talking about. Could you give me maybe two or three that it would be a good idea to start with? If you're doing a shift, you're changing your instruction and you want to have that positive impact on students, what would you suggest?
Speaker 2:So this is really hard for me to answer because this is going to really depend on your students, what grade you are teaching, your strengths as a teacher, what you're already doing well and what you know what's not as strong. So for me, because I was first making these moves as a kindergarten teacher, probably the most important move for me was those using decoding strategies and decodable text for my kindergartners. But that move might not be the right move for an upper grade teacher or someone else, so it's so hard to answer that I do understand it.
Speaker 3:So even for us, when we think about the instruction we need to provide, we want to have some prescriptions, we want to be diagnostic right For a doctor. You wouldn't give you some antibiotic for a cold. It's not the right prescription. All right, so as we wrap up, I just wanted to discuss how teachers can develop confidence in reading instruction if they are transitioning to science-based strategies. How can they build themselves up after learning and teaching a different way in the past?
Speaker 2:Okay, I want to say don't be hard on yourself. Have grace both with yourself and grace for others. We're all at different points of our learning journey, like we all have to start somewhere, right? So start, begin your journey. Focus on one thing at a time because I know it can feel overwhelming to be like, oh my gosh, I got to overhaul all my literacy instruction but choose one thing, start with the one thing and then, when you're ready, add something else. And I would say focus on progress, not perfection, both in your teaching and in your students' learning.
Speaker 3:Focus on progress, not perfection. Very good advice, Lindsay. Well, this has been a wonderful conversation about the intricacies and effective reading instruction supported by comprehensive research. You named a lot of researchers and a lot of our gurus of literacy out there. You've learned quite a bit from them If you heard some of those names, dive into learning more, as well as your own fascinating journey. Lindsay, we want to thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience with our audience today. How can our listeners learn more about you?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm on social media. Facebook is Teaching with Lindsay Kemeny, so it's a Facebook page, instagram, and X I'm just, and LinkedIn I'm at Lindsay Kemeny, I have a website. And X I'm just. And LinkedIn I'm at Lindsay Kemeny. I have a website, lindsaykemenycom. And, of course, my book Seven Mighty Moves. I have two of those, and my third book is Rocky Laracy Block comes out this summer, so oh, wonderful, thank you for sharing.
Speaker 3:Well, that's it for another great Edview 360 podcast. Please join us again and visit voyageshoprislearningcom slash edview to learn more about our webinars, blogs and other podcasts. This has been Pam Austen and we hope to see you all again soon.
Speaker 1:This has been an Edview 360 podcast. For additional thought-provoking discussions, sign up for our blog, webinar and podcast series at voyagersopriscom. Slash edview360. If you enjoyed the show, we'd love a five-star review wherever you listen to podcasts and to help other people like you find our show. Thank you.
Speaker 4:Voyager Sopris Learning is the reading, writing and math intervention specialist With four decades of results. We provide evidence-based interventions and assessments that help educators ensure academic success for all students. Learn more at voyagersopriscom.
